Curse

tenshi_strife · Jun 25, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

ok realm....... i get your point...... it works great fro that build if its at 30s and has more damage but did you stop to think about one lil problem, what about other builds....... i have a build that uses sh that i NEED the extra 5 seconds....... so no do not change it to 30 seconds please

Realm of Fiery Doom · Jun 25, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Ok, problem now. Gotta choose between making GW simple and keeping the recharge times of ALL DoTAoE spells at 30s, or keeping it at 25 for the sake of this particular build that Tenshi has.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jun 25, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Or you could just leave one of the few near-perfectly balanced skills in guildwars as it is... how about that?

Realm of Fiery Doom · Jun 25, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Well...what's wrong with my idea? Can you think of any potential advantages / disadvantages that could radically make the skill unbalanced?

Does anybody have something useful to say other than "I don't care, leave it alone, I can't be bothered, it's got nothing to do with me" etc.?

My Green Storage · Jun 25, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

You're nerfing it for PVP, aren't you?

I use SH, I always use SH (Unless SF is needed. ie: Urgoz) - in PVE
Meteor Shower, Rodgorts, SH, Liquid Flame and/or Fireball on a mob.

But, I will ask again, you want it nerfed because of PVP.

You can't move out of it?
If you see the casting, don't stand in one spot and let it finish ... move WHILE it's casting?

"But teh Frozen Burst and teh Ice Spikes!!!1"

Well ... if it's you and just you, then tough cookies ... if it's you AND your team, then all of you need to go un-hero like, and don't bunch together??

Might work.
"Mob As One"
MoA -- The PVP-only skill .. lol

Thomas.knbk · Jun 25, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Realm of Fiery Doom

Ok, problem now. Gotta choose between making GW simple and keeping the recharge times of ALL DoTAoE spells at 30s, or keeping it at 25 for the sake of this particular build that Tenshi has.

Making Guild Wars simple is bad.
I don't know what's wrong with you. You've got a build, and tbh it's really, really bad, in which SH would be better if it did more damage and had a 30 second recharge. Guess what: nobody cares. Expose Defenses would have a better synergy with Shadow Prison if the recharge was lengthened to 20 seconds, and the duration lengthened as well, but on a 10 or 15 second recharge, you can actually use it in between spikes. Nobody cares about your concentrated firepower every 30 seconds, because if a good player, or anyone with half a brain, is caught in a stack of multiple DoTAoE's he'll move out of it. DoTAoE's are more effective anyway if you can spread them around to multiple locations. I'm sure in PvE you'll pwn monsters harder with your concentrated firepower, but we're not balancing skills around PvE.
So far you've dismissed any argument in this thread by saying it's stupid (1: it's elite, it deserves a shorter recharge, 2: it's fine as it is, 3: this change would actually make it worse for a lot of builds other than yours). If you want to continue this discussion in a serious manner, I'd like to hear some counters to those arguments other than ridiculing them, because pretending someone said "ZOMFG ELITE!!1!1" (post #12) doesn't do anything for your point. SH being elite is a totally valid argument why it should have a shorter recharge, concentrated firepower is not, because that's not a good way to use DoTAoE's anyway.

Darkobra · Jun 26, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

I can just imagine his shock when he gets a half recharge on his spells. You say you can do more damage in 5 spells with the 5 second recharge than you can do in 6? I wonder what that says about your current build then. "I won't change my build! I'll just petition to ANet to change it to suit me!"

Gotta choose between keeping GW balanced or catering to this one person's build...

Realm of Fiery Doom · Jun 26, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

I thought DoTAoE's were made to deal a lot of damage. Or are they a simply fanciful way to scatter mobs?

1. Ok, it's Elite. If you ask me, it either has to have lots of damage or a fast recharge to make it extremely useful; something in the middle would not be better than a skill that concentrates on damage or recharge, and the thing it's not good at (recharge or damage) would be offset by the other skills in your bar.

2. "It's fine as it is" is an opinion expressed by a lot of people who fear change. I don't disagree with that, and in real life I probably fear change well, but Guild Wars is ever changing and needs to change for it to stay fresh and alive. Otherwise, it would turn into a stagnant game with people using select builds only.

3. I'm not aware of any builds, and I personally don't have a build in mind, but I thought that it would actually help people to make builds. Off the top of my head, I came up with Glyph of Elemental Power + Savannah Heat + Breath of Fire, and Glyph of Elemental Power + Glyph of Lesser Energy + Searing Heat + Teinai's Heat. I'm not an expert at making builds, and those skill combinations are probably very basic, but each combo can still do upwards of 300 damage at 12 Fire Magic. And if it's combined with a Frozen Burst or Ice Spikes in PvP, that particular person or even those people if you're lucky , they won't get out of the nearby range in 5 seconds. If you had a teammate using Mind Freeze and/or Mind Shock, I see a potentially easy kill coming every 15s with these skills alone. It's not even particularly taxing on your energy either, so you can start using your other skills to kill other people straight away. I don't PvP or even pretend that I know anything about PvP, so correct me if I'm wrong.

However, you still haven't answered my question. Do you have any problems with my proposal other than it's fine as it is? Things can be fine, but they can still be improved. Doubtless your old phone/TV/computer/anything worked, so was there a need to buy a new one?

Also, let me ask a new question. If when it was created, Savannah Heat had a recharge time of 30s and had the extra damage, and then I came along and requested for the recharge time to be shortened because it's elite and the damage reduced, would you have agreed instantly?
If you would have agreed instantly, then why is the shortened recharge/reduced damage version more appropriate for Guild Wars than the increased recharge/increased damage version?
If not, then you are you rejecting my proposal on the basis that it's fine already. I can sympathise with that, but can you give my version a go if you don't have anything against my proposal other than it changes something that works already?

Kale Ironfist · Jun 26, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Having increased damage and recharge would have made the spell more deadly, as a utility snare would increase damage by quite a bit.

Quote:

If you had a teammate using Mind Freeze and/or Mind Shock, I see a potentially easy kill coming every 15s with these skills alone.

Not with those skills alone (Spirit Bond would break it, and it's pretty much on at least one monks bar in every high PvP). Combined with dedicated offense? Pretty good chances.

Quote:

Glyph of Elemental Power + Glyph of Lesser Energy + Searing Heat + Teinai's Heat

One glyph active at a time only.

Rurik Jangeer · Jun 27, 2007, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Nice clean skill chain? Synergy? It is an elite skill for a reason. Elite skills have advantages over non-elites, and the recharge is one of SH's. Your argument is baseless. Making an elite skill more akin to regulars diminishes the individuality of the spell.

Arduin · Jun 27, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Realm of Fiery Doom

Ok, problem now. Gotta choose between making GW simple and keeping the recharge times of ALL DoTAoE spells at 30s, or keeping it at 25 for the sake of this particular build that Tenshi has.

Ok, problem now. Gotta choose between keeping GW as it is and keeping the recharge times of ALL DoTAoE spells as they are, or change it to 25 for Savannah Heat for the sake of this particular build that YOU have.

I really don't get it, just throw a Fireball or something while you are waiting for the extra 5 secs to elapse. You are asking to change a skill because you, and only you, are annoyed by the recharge time. What about all those other players who are thinking the 25 secs recharge time is perfectly fine? ANet is already nerfing/buffing skills way too much in my opinion, why ask for another change?

Moa Bird Cultist · Jun 28, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

I personally couldn't care less what they do to SH, because I'm not overly fond of dotAoE skills. Actually, the 5 seconds less recharge makes it even better for combining with other aoe attacks, because it gives you a bit of flexibility over exactly when to cast it. But it's rare for there to be a need to recast all your aoes every 30 seconds anyway.

I wont pretend that I understand your reasoning. As I said already, the 25 seconds is to make it more flexible than all the non elites. Take that away and the skill becomes 'force on 30s' like you've suggested, but thats actually worse than being able to precast it early if one of your other, (and honestly, any more than two aoes at the same time is just damned inefficient,) aoe skills recharges.

Realm of Fiery Doom · Jul 01, 2007, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist

Having increased damage and recharge would have made the spell more deadly, as a utility snare would increase damage by quite a bit.

Not with those skills alone (Spirit Bond would break it, and it's pretty much on at least one monks bar in every high PvP). Combined with dedicated offense? Pretty good chances.

One glyph active at a time only.

Ah. Told you I didn't know anything about PvP

And I overlooked the Glyph thing as well.

Well, since everyone thinks that Elites have to have a better damage output AND recharge than other skills, I declare this thread closed.

around · Jul 01, 2007, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

You're nerfing it for PVP, aren't you?

lol lern2read pve scrub.

mr_groovy · Jul 01, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

The faster SH recharges the better. I would even go for E10 R20 or E15 R15
I'm using archane echo so spamming SH is great, and even better in HM.

/not signed at all

Realm of Fiery Doom · Jul 01, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Again, I declare this thread closed.